Deji Akinpelu Welcome to the African Cities podcast, brought to you by the African Cities Research Consortium, ACRC. Today we’ll be taking a closer look at how everyday communities are driving real change in water sanitation and hygiene, known as WASH, in the city of Lagos here in Nigeria. Our focus is on the Okerube community, one of the action research sites under the ACRC’s Lagos portfolio. This episode will explore how academic research connects with grassroots action and how communities are reclaiming local governance and how sustainable planning is taking shape from the ground up. With me on today’s episode are four amazing guests, who have all played key roles in this journey so far. I will allow them to introduce themselves. First, Dr Temilade, kindly introduce yourself. 

Temilade Sesan Hello, everyone. My name is Temilade Sesan. I am the city manager for ACRC in Lagos. 

Deji Akinpelu Thank you for being here. So let us have Mrs Daniel Funmilayo, a woman leader representative from the community. Mrs Daniel, can you please introduce yourself? 

Funmilayo Mulikat Daniel I am Mrs Daniel, the women leader from Okerube water committee. 

Deji Akinpelu Thank you for coming. Okay. Next is Seun. Please, can you introduce yourself? 

Oluwaseun Muraina Thank you. Good morning, everyone. My name is Oluwaseun. I’m a doctoral candidate at the Centre for Housing and Sustainable Development. I am also the co-lead on the WASH project at Okerube. 

Deji Akinpelu Thank you. Followed by Mr Rasheed. 

Rasheed Shittu So my name is Rasheed Shittu, the executive director of Shantytown Empowerment Foundation, SHEF, the professional support organisation to Nigerian Federation, Slum Dwellers International, SDI, affiliates, also the lead on the ACRC WASH project in Okerube community under Oluwaseun. 

Deji Akinpelu Great, thank you to everyone for joining us. So we’ll just get it all started. Temilade, let’s start with you. What made Okerube such an important site for the ACRC project? And what does its story reveal about urban inequality in Lagos? 

Temilade Sesan Thank you very much and thank you again for having me on this really important conversation. So ACRC really is all about demonstrating through what we call exemplar projects and how communities that have been historically overlooked in urban development can really lead the way in helping us to rethink and reimagine what a good African city should look like? You know, what is that definition of a good city, a good society? Hint, the answer really is, you know, a city that carries everyone along in development and leaves no one behind. And Okerube is one such community. Okerube, if you’ve been there, I have had the privilege of being there several times. It’s got great social, cultural, economic, even political capital, right? But it’s really on the fringes, right? In terms of services and infrastructure, like water and sanitation, which is one of the many wicked problems in the community that, you know, ACRC has chosen to start with. And what does it say about our society, you know, and urban inequality? The second part of your question. I think that Okerube and, you know, similar communities, I think that they hold up a mirror to who we are as a society. I think they show us how short-sighted we are and how inequality really is an unproductive strategy, if we can call it a strategy. So just imagine, I’ll give a thought experiment here. Imagine for a second that tomorrow there’s a cholera outbreak in Okerube, which is in one of the most populated, maybe even the most-populated LGA in Lagos, Alimosho. That there’s a cholera outbreak in the area due to the inadequacy of WASH facilities, what we’re trying to address. The ripple effects are going to be enormous, schools may be closed, travel advisories will be issued. We’ve seen advisories being issued for even, even less, shall I say consequential, occurrences, you know, investors will be wary. You have things like shares dropping, share prices and things dropping, in other words like, you know, the big big dreams – in Lagos, we like to say big big things, which is after big big things – but the big dreams that we are chasing as a city would be severely threatened by this seemingly humble and simple you know thing that is inadequate water and sanitation in the city. So it just shows that inequality does not pay. At the end of the day, it does not pay anyone. And if it doesn’t pay anyone, then it doesn’t pay everyone. 

Deji Akinpelu Thank you very much, that was quite insightful I must say. Yeah, so let’s hear from the community side directly. So I’ll be moving on to Mrs Funmilayo. So Mrs Funmilayo, can you please paint a picture of what everyday life looks like in Okerube, especially around water and sanitation? What has been the challenges so far? 

Funmilayo Mulikat Daniel The Okerube community is a place here that is highly populated and the population is increasing on a daily basis due to the newly constructed road in the area. But unfortunately, as the community is growing, the issue of water and sanitation is becoming larger. Water and sanitation are major issues in the Okerube community. When people wake up in the morning, the first thing they move for is water to start the day’s activities and in the process of doing that, since they wake up early, the people that give free water, the few of them that give free water, they are not set to come out to give them and the houses where they have to go and fetch the water, where there are water vendors, it’s about five to eight houses, far away from the users. And at that point, when our women and children, when they go to fetch water, looking for water around, they are victims of being attacked by miscreants in the community. And we all know that the provision of potable water gives way to sanitation and good health. Without water, there’s nothing, we cannot be talking of sanitation. Frankly speaking, Okerube is currently experiencing bad sanitation due to lack of water. And most houses don’t have clean environments, resulting to water-borne diseases. Unfortunately, the community is not pushing enough to get water and sanitation. So the CDA (Community Development Association) is purely funded by the residents. And the focus is not for them to be able to pay for the security charges, the maintenance of electricity, and some self-help projects that does not require intensive expenses. This is because even majority of the residents, they don’t believe that it is their responsibility to do that. They are waiting for government. Government is not forthcoming. And this nonchalant attitude has led us to this level. Even the development levy, the levies that we normally collect monthly, the people don’t pay. And there’s no legal backing for the CDA to be able to get their money from the residents. And that is another challenge that we have. You have to use appeal. You appeal to them to pay the little money they want to pay. And when you don’t enforce anything, you don’t want to enforce, our people will not even take it seriously. So that is the challenges that we have. We are just hoping and hoping that there should be community development awareness campaign among our people and then there should be a legal way from government for us to be able to collect our levy. Then if that’s the goal, we’ll be able to get what we want. 

Deji Akinpelu Okay, I’ll come back to you, Mrs Funmilayo, again. Right now, I’d like to move to Mr Rasheed who is the project lead on this. Mr Rasheed, so far, what are the key activities in trying to address this issue? What are the activities that have been carried out in Okerube and how has the reception been? 

Rasheed Shittu Yeah, thank you so much. It’s a pleasure to be part of this podcast with regards to the WASH project in Okerube. Well, basically, since the inception of the project, the activities that we’ve been able to carry out in Okerube, one, we visited the community with the ACRC team from Manchester across all of the African cities. And there was a high level of enthusiasm from the community to receive the large team of ACRC and also the project itself. And again, we went around the community to visit the proposed land site for the hub, where the toilets and the borehole and the bathroom infrastructure, under water and sanitation. We visited the site, proposed site, with the ACRC team, with the community representatives. Also, one of the activities that we’ve been able to carry out was that we did a pre-project introduction in the community in ensuring that we are able to at least give the community an insight to the project that we intend to implement in their community and also we did the main project introduction in the community to be able to formally launch the project. And which, with regards to the reception, yeah, there was a high level of acceptance from the community during the project introduction and also joining the main project introduction, which is positive and we aim to ensure that the projects empower the women in the community and also key governance actors, to be able to improve water and sanitation services delivery in Okerube community. And also, there was a good acceptance from the local political appointee, which is the honourable councillor that is serving urban in Okerube Ward B, under Igando-Ikotun LCDA. Which also, there was the reception from the Lagos representative that attended the main launch of the project, and that would definitely address the challenges, the community phase in terms of water and sanitation, which also will serve as a learning space or a learning centre for all other informal settlements and slum communities that we work with in the city of Lagos. 

Deji Akinpelu Thank you very much. It is good to hear that there are other stakeholders like government agencies and government appointees also participating in the project so far. And now to you, Seun. You also, you are a co-lead on this, so, okay. Okerube project, from what I gathered, was considering a very interesting approach in solving the WASH challenge in the community, using a social enterprise model rather than the traditional aid approach. Why this direction? 

Oluwaseun Muraina Thank you. So the decision to adopt this social enterprise model it came about, or emerged from years, I’ll say years, of learning that the benevolent and the purely aid-driven projects often fail or collapse once external funding ends. And the same also applies to government provided infrastructure that hasn’t exactly put in the proper manmade frameworks increase. And so this persistent problem in these communities have often come from weak financial governance structures. So the first thing we did in Okerube was to, just like Mr Rasheed mentioned, there were a lot of preliminary activities, right? And the first thing we did was to know what currently exists and understand the people’s everyday realities, right? Some of things we wanted to find out: where the facilities, the services are available, you know, the mode of operations and the management existing. And what we found that was we noted was that the WASH interventions in this community have mainly been benevolent-based, you know, provisions, many times although they rely on government projects or charity. But the situation where what is available are meant for coming out. So we started to see that these things have not been sustained over time. For example, on toilet facilities, right, we noted one that was provided by the senator representing that district, another provided by the government, and another that’s privately owned, but mainly for commercial users. One of these three toilet facilities, especially the one provided by senator, you know, is currently non-functional. And another one, the one that’s provided by government has been taken over by an individual. And then the last one, of course, that’s privately owned for commercial users, where people have to pay tokens to access it. So we’re seeing situations where there is abandonment, there is non-functionality, and then we know what’s being meant for communal use that they’re taking over by an individual because proper structures have not been put in place, even with the government. And on the other hand, we’ve also realised that these residents are paying inflated prices for water. Of questionable quality, water that is not even potable, just to meet their daily need, and they are paying to unregulated water vendors who they have to rely on to provide this water. So, having analysed [inaudible] on ground is why we are proposing a more sustainable model, which we believe is going to be community-driven, of course, and which is in the form of this social enterprise model, so that we bridge the gap, and then they are able to move from of dependency to more self-reliance. So what is the social enterprise model? It is a model that is often adopted to address specific challenges and where a substantial portion of income generated through the sale of goods or services are then clawed back or reinvested into expanding the enterprise. And in this case, rather than this community solely relying on maybe donations or grants, they’re able to generate income that helps them to maintain this facility. So in form of [inaudible] in the form of remuneration for people who will be managing, you know, all of that. So that even when after long after we are out, this project has ended, these facilities are maintained long after this phase and then basically. So, of course, they need the greater details of it to still be fleshed out because there’s still a phase where we have to do community profiling and mapping to determine the exact needs of this community. But at least this is what we are proposing, a sustainable model. And every other thing we’re still planning.

Deji Akinpelu Thank you for that very in-depth explanation to the model being adopted for the programme. I’d like to move to Mrs Funmilayo, you’re a woman leader in the community and I would just like to know what has been the role being played by these women so far during this project and what are the possibilities that you see coming your way as a community, particularly as women? 

Funmilayo Mulikat Daniel The role that women have played, they are numerous. They are numerous. Number one, the volunteering spirit of the Okerube Water Committee to work as a team is the key factor that plays a very vital role in shaping these initiatives. The spirit of unity in us. And we have been able to reach out to community members, creating awareness to the youth, to the market women, political office holders, advocating for the support of this initiative. And also, we hold our regular meeting, brainstorming on how to meet the initiative resources. And again, by active participation on all the programmes that are on ground for the initiative. That is the work that we have been doing. Now, we are hoping that with all this put in place, we will get where we are going. Thank you. 

Deji Akinpelu Oh, thank you very much for that, your response. And still on the issue of gender, Dr Temilade, from your own research lens, how do you see gender shaping the outcome of this particular project? 

Temilade Sesan Okay, thanks for that question. So I think one of the things that really excited me at the start of this, you know, while we were even shaping this proposal led by Mr Rasheed, was really this woman-led lens, because it is absolutely central to what we’re trying to do here. Women and children, you know, are traditionally the custodians of water provision, water access, I mean in households and communities here. So that’s something that you would write in like a research paper, right? In an academic paper. But what does it really mean in practice? I mean, for me, I do have lived experience of this. Growing up, the other day, I was telling my ten-year-old, and I tell them some of these scary stories about when I was growing up sometimes just to scare them straight. And I’m like, you know, when I, as your age, I used to fetch water. My mum would send me and my siblings, all girls, naturally, to go and fetch water in buckets on our heads that we’d carry on our heads two streets away. So I remember it was this military barracks, not very… for children was quite far, like a, I don’t know, ten-minute trek. So you’d go, and then fetch the water and balance it on your head and cross streets with cars, moving cars, no sidewalks, nothing. And back, I really don’t know how, you know, we survived that phase, but this is the picture of people, women, children, growing up in Lagos. And so you find that they are more implicated than any group, than any demographic in this problem. And so having women on the supply side and in management, right, as this project is doing, really does improve the quality of the decisions that are made with regard to community-led water provision. For example, like, you know, inciting the infrastructure and safeguarding it. Mrs Daniel mentioned earlier how sometimes, you know you have, you know harassment going on with the young girls that go to fetch water. These are everyday realities and we cannot hide our heads in the sand pretending they don’t exist. They do. You know, pricing the water, all those kinds of decisions, having women, not just as maybe sitting ducks, waiting for decisions to be made on their behalf on something that they are the most affected by, you know, it’s really a relief. And so we will have more of the lived experiences of women going to those decisions. So that’s a really big win for the kinds of outcomes that we can expect from this kind of project. And maybe just to add, finally, that beyond the actual infrastructure provision and use, we’re looking to use this project as an opportunity to broaden the space for women, not just for agency and being able to do things, but also for voice, for being able to express their voice, not just at the community level, first of all, starting from there, but also at the local government and state government levels. It’s not a secret that Nigeria has one of the lowest levels of women’s representation just in decision-making politically at all levels. And so this is also going to be a window to begin to make more space for those voices to be expressed. 

Deji Akinpelu Thank you. Very, very important. Having a gender lens into development issues is very, very key and important. It’s one of the key learnings that have come out in previous research works all over the world. And that will bring me to my next question to Seun. What are some of the key learnings so far and how are you thinking about sustainability going forward? I know that’s a two in one question, but just help us to just quickly address that. The key learnings so far and then sustainability going forward. 

Oluwaseun Muraina Alright, thank you. There’s been quite a few learnings so far, to be honest. Speaking from someone coming from the academia, to having to work on the action research projects. People in ACRC would know that an action research project is definitely different from the way that we do traditional research, right? And so for me, I’ll speak to a few learnings. But one major one is that trust and transparency are the foundation of community collaboration, right? So we didn’t come in assuming trust will be automatically gotten from these people, right. We realised earlier on that, you know, community buy-in must be earned. Which is what informed many of the project teams for engagement meetings and activities. So I think understanding that early on has helped us and especially in the any buy-in and acceptance that we’ve gotten so far. So we went in, assuring them, you know, through different formats and meetings, helping them to clarify our roles, helping to clarify expectations, you know. Creating forums and dialogues to clear out issues early on and then we could see the results in the major town hall meeting that we had. So all of this helped us to also prevent conflict. So that’s one major thing for me, not to assume that community buy-ins, it’s automatically gotten, but should be earned. Another thing which applies to a typical action research is that it is a dynamic process. It’s more like iterative. There’s always a constant back and forth, buy-in, right? So we don’t come in with fixed solutions, right, but we’re co-creating all of this with the community and they know, which is why we have community, you know, representatives on the team, who are more like the face of the entire community and it doesn’t stop there. We also take it to the larger house so that we are all speaking with one voice and some of the feedback we get, we go back to the table, the drawing table, you know, to also make sure that all of that is reflecting to the best of how we can, you know, impute all of the feedback that we’re getting. And so it’s more iterative than one-way. So there are no fixed solutions, we are co-creating and then adapting as we go on, right? And so that’s also a major key point for me. And another one I would like to share is the fact that these women-led structures are in fact very effective. We are happy to ride on the work that the key NGO, the last year, has been doing so far. And so having to build on that has been very helpful for us. Recognising these informal structures, the governance at play, you know, is what has been helping us achieve success so far. Well, if I do say so, success so far. So, recognising this community and the work that they’ve done so far and also helping to strengthen their capacity, especially in the areas of governance, has been very key. So, yeah, those are the key learnings I will speak to. There’s so much more. Now, to the second question you asked, on how we are thinking about sustainability going forward. I will say, sustainability for us would mean leaving behind capability and capacities, not dependency. I spoke earlier about the fact that even when the research phase is over, you know, we can still pinpoint to the fact, that even years down the line, that this project is successful because the project we want to leave behind, we still find it’s [inaudible]. And so that’s what sustainability [inaudible], we’re living behind capability. And so going forward, we want to further strengthen the structure that is available in terms of all the groups, not only the women now, all the groups, all the groups. Somewhere that they can continue without the need for external support. And if, because it’s still the pilot phase, if this is accepted, it means that we can replicate the same scale up across even the larger Okerube community, and then other informal communities, you know, in the future. That’ll be taken on in the future. So that’s what sustainability critically is to us. You know, how we’re able to leave behind capabilities. And also, recognition and representation. So by the time you develop these people’s capabilities, they’re aware of their needs and how they should demand for their needs to be met. And they are not going there without informed knowledge. So they are able to know who’s responsible for what. And call them into action because we’ve empowered them. You know, they call these people into action and they’re able to ask for their rights and also basically just shape their lives going forward. And they can do all of this with the information that they have. And one thing we’re also trying to do is the mapping and profiling base will get them involved, especially the youth. So the community owns this information in the form of data. And they can demand for their rights, yeah, from that. 

Deji Akinpelu Yeah, thank you so much for that lovely response. I mean, this is really speaking to the possibility of change. And my next question will go to Dr Temilade. At the ACRC, there is the concept and the theory concerning change. So far, from the ACRC conceptual framework, what are you seeing in terms of the possibility of change coming up from this project, from the ACRC theory of change? 

Temilade Sesan Okay, great. So just to say, first of all, that we are testing the theory of change on ACRC, meaning that we have come in with this theory and seeing how it will pan out in practice. And our experiences on the ground will inform this theory of change, ie, are there parts of it that need to be tweaked, you know, to fit the reality as opposed to the other way around? So the four central pillars of the ACRC theory of change: the elite commitment, enhanced state capacity, mobilised citizens, and building reform coalitions. I would say that the latter, the last two, are the first ones that we are sort of starting with, because this is very much community-driven. So mobilised citizens at the grassroots level, mobilised through organisations, movements like the Federation and SHEF, which is like the presiding organisation for SDI and the Federation. And then those movements and organisations linking to broader allies, as it were, with like people, organisations of like mind, right, and trying to build momentum, right, around not just infrastructure in one community, but also just raising the profile of WASH more broadly in Lagos. So in the short term, these are the pillars that we are starting with. But in the long term, we see, as Seun has just said, the evidence coming out of that, we see that then informing potentially elite commitment, political elites at the local government and state government levels, as well as enhanced state capacity to engage with communities. Yes, there is the technical capacity that maybe a lot of people focus on, but it’s also the capacity to work with communities to determine what the needs are, you know, and to respond appropriately. So that would be like, if you will, in a sense, WASH 2.0 from our perspective. But yeah, that’s what we hope to do from the short to the medium to the long-term. 

Deji Akinpelu Thank you very much. And to Mr Rasheed, as we close the… wind up. Mr Rasheed, tell me, what are your hopes for this project in terms of not just Okerube, but in terms of Lagos in general? What do you hope that this project will be able to achieve, in terms of how the government relates with informal communities in the city of Lagos? What do you think you are going to be able to achieve with this initiative at Okerube? 

Rasheed Shittu Thank you so much for that brilliant question, Deji. I’m glad you came up with that question. Yeah, I will use two words to kind of explain and maybe expand it more. [Inaudible] to assessibility and acceptability because reason being that the informal and slum communities have been marginalised. They are deprived communities. Which the gap has been created between the government and the governed, and which the community or the informal people doesn’t have any trust when it comes to government officials’ engagements. Because the reason being that it has been planning for them, not planned with them. There has been a major reason why most of the project has been a failed project or abandoned project. But when there is accessibility, the project we give room as Okerube as a learning space and as a pilot to be able to have access to the government, the political elite, and to be able to accept them, and that we kind of give a change that Dr Temilade spoke about when it comes to sustainability. And now and again, there’s going to be acceptability because if they cannot assess the government or the political elected representative, how would they accept them? So after that, there is going to acceptability of the concept itself, and also what is coming from the community. Because the majority of them believe that these community people has nothing to offer or has no knowledge at all. But I’m glad that one of the responses from Seun, she made mention of the academia, research is just a pure, maybe theoretical aspects. But the project gave room for, the AR project gave room for action research projects, which kind of let people understand that the community have their own knowledge, they understand their community more, they know where it pinches, they are the one that wear the shoes. So, by and large, at the end of the day, we were able to achieve the assessibility and acceptability on the part of the political elites, who would definitely achieve a greater part in scaling up and also accepting the project, not only in Lagos alone, but across Nigeria as a nation. Thank you so much. 

Deji Akinpelu Oh, great. Fantastic. So we’ll just wrap up with the with pretty much our last question to everyone. Maybe I’m going to start with Dr Temilade. And this is what I call the picture painting session. So tell us. We’ve spoken about Okerube as an informal settlement, but just tell us in your closing remarks, what exactly should a just and sustainable future look like for informal settlements like Okerube in the city of Lagos? What should we be aspiring towards? That would be our last question. I’ll let Dr Temilade go first. 

Temilade Sesan Great. Thanks, Deji. So you’re giving me a blank canvas here. I could paint. I could paint, you know, all day on this. I think that the big picture is broad, is very broad. But I’ll just pick on maybe one thing, and piggyback on Mr Rasheed’s last comment around, you know, what would a just and sustainable future look like? It would be one that harnesses the assets, you know, in Okerube and similar communities. I think that for too long, we have approached, when I saw we – government, development actors have approached – communities like Okerube from a deficit perspective. And it is true that, you know, they are vulnerable, they are marginalised, but that’s because, that’s a cause and effect thing. That’s because they’ve been, you know, they’re not actually poor, but impoverished, right? It’s a condition that has been brought about by structural issues, but the reality remains that there are assets in the communities, there’s knowledge, there is experience, there are resources, there is capital even, there is money, for example, which is what we’re trying to demonstrate through the AR project, where the monies that are being currently used, we just want to pull it together more efficiently, right, and manage it better. So including those communities as active shapers of policy and practise as equals, really. So we’re talking of equality and equity, okay? And so we will have more equitable outputs if we were to start from that premise. Thank you.

Deji Akinpelu Thank you. Seun, can we have your perspective? 

Oluwaseun Muraina Yes, so I think I’ve spoken earlier about what sustainability is, so I’ll emphasise more on a just future for communities like Okerube, you know, for all informal settlements. To me, it would mean recognition and representation; recognition that these communities are parts of the city, not temporal spaces to be ignored or displaced. You remember when Dr Temi was speaking about the implication of ignoring them much earlier in our discussion, because often for long, right, we viewed informal communities as a nuisance, right? So far. But we’re increasingly seeing that they can be centres of local agency, which is what’s been influencing this project, right. Centres of resilience and local agency. I think the way it comes to me is that these people, in spite of the conditions of their environment, is their ability to still survive. So you want to look critically at, you know, the adaptive tendency of human beings, right? How are they surviving in this community? It means that there’s something that they hold that we need to really look into, right. So for me, it’s essentially now shifting from doing it for these communities or doing for these communities to doing it with them. So much that the system gives them the right to shape decisions affecting their lives, where governance is collaborative, data is co-owned, and infrastructure is built on local knowledge. So yes, I will say it in a word, it will be like, this is our project, our data, our future, you know, and having the capacity to sustain it without wanting for external help. Thank you. 

Deji Akinpelu Thank you, Mr Rasheed. 

Rasheed Shittu It’s been a very productive and insightful discussion today. And I will say that from my end, I will hang the discussion till when we’ll pick it up by saying that there will be need for government to kind of promote community ownership, not by saying, but by doing. And by so doing, there should be more community engagement through participatory planning. That will kind of include the community, not only just like maybe okay we’ve engaged them, no from inception there should be uh they should be involved in the planning and also in the implementation. That would now kind of ensure community ownership that will translate to long-time maintainers and sustainability, so that is where I’m going to hang for now. Thank you so much. 

Deji Akinpelu Okay, thank you very much. Mrs Funmilayo. 

Funmilayo Mulikat Daniel Okay, I just want to say that our little little effort that should help us out, so that we can have what will make better our life, both from the ACRC and the government, that this should be made to government as well so that our people will live a better life. God will help us. 

Deji Akinpelu Thank you so much. And it’s all about a better life for the people. I’d like to thank everyone who has been part of today’s show. The discussion so far shows that transformation begins when knowledge meets shared experiences, particularly in our local communities. Okerube’s story to us right here is not just about water. It’s about power, participation and giving the people the opportunity to reclaim the control of their own urban futures and planning with them and developing ideas with them. You’ve been listening to the African Cities podcast. I am your host, Deji Akinpelu. Until next time, keep building cities rooted in the strength of the people. Thank you once again to all our guests. Bye. See you next time. 

Rasheed Shittu Thanks, bye. 

Temilade Sesan Thank you. 

Outro You have been listening to the African Cities podcast. Remember to subscribe for more urban development insights and interviews from the African Cities Research Consortium. 

Chris Jordan Hello and welcome to the African Cities Research Consortium podcast. My name is Chris Jordan. I’m the communications manager with ACRC and today I’m joined as a co-host by Rosebella Apollo, our uptake lead in Nairobi. Welcome Rosebella.

Rosebella Apollo Thank you, Chris. I’m happy to be here.

Chris Jordan And we’re also in Manchester with some of the key people in our team from Harare. We have George Masimba who’s the head of programmes at Dialogue on Shelter. Hello, George.

George Masimba Hi, how are you? Glad to be here.

Chris Jordan Great, yeah, good thanks. We’ve also got Shiela Muganyi, also at Dialogue on Shelter, who is heading up the programme around informal settlements and climate resilience. Hi Shiela.

Shiela Muganyi Hi Chris, hi Rosebella, thank you for inviting us.

Chris Jordan Our pleasure. It’s lovely to have you here. So, we wanted to talk to you about some of the work that you’ve got going on in Harare at the moment and some of the surrounding issues. One of the longest standing projects that you’ve had, I think the first one you started, was around urban markets, which are a really key element of the city, providing livelihoods and an economic base for thousands of people. So could you tell me a bit about what the project set out to do and how it’s developed over time?

George Masimba Thank you very much, Chris. Indeed, the work that we’ve done in Harare started with the urban markets work, which I’m going to talk about, and we’ve also had a component around informal settlements, which my colleague Shiela will talk about. So in terms of the urban markets work, like you rightly pointed out, it was as a result of the realisation that markets play in the city in terms livelihoods. But also taking into account the, apart from these opportunities in terms of livelihoods benefits, there are also challenges in these markets, particularly with regards to access to infrastructure and services in these markets and also even the policies that relate to making these spaces more inclusive, more resilient and sustainable as part and parcel of the mainstream city. So, our projects sought to engage with the market associations from across the city of Harare and we targeted about 13 markets from within Harare, and the broad agenda around the project was to undertake what I would consider as three or four elements. So, firstly, it looked at data collection, taking into account that the work that we’re doing is part and parcel of the ACRC action research project. So data collection was a very key element in terms of trying to understand the realities of the markets in Harare. Secondly, there was also a huge component around policy-related processes. And what do we mean here? We were focusing on supporting policy-related engagement with the city in terms of identifying areas that require strengthening, in terms of ensuring that we have the right institutional environment where traders can flourish and the markets as well. And then thirdly, we also had a significant component that focuses on capacity strengthening in terms of the market associations, and also even capacity strengthening in terms of state institutions taking into account the theory of change of ACRC, which speaks to enhanced state capacity as one of the key pillars that unlocks inclusive urban growth. Then, lastly, we had a component around undertaking physical upgrades as a way of demonstrating what can be done in terms of improving these markets when traders, the city, and all the stakeholders come on board in terms trying to solve these issues. So that’s the focus, or that was the focus of the work that we’re doing in Harare. And we started with focusing on one market. Where we made some interventions in terms of the hardware related interventions and this is Glen View 8 Furniture Complex. It’s located towards the southwestern part of the capital of Harare. This, as the name suggests, the market is involved in carpentry items, but beyond that there are also related livelihoods activities that are also happening within the same market apart from the furniture making businesses. So we did collect data, supported by academics and also communities, taking into account the community knowledge component that is a very huge component in terms of the African Cities Research Consortium action research. And then after collecting data, together with the traders, we then sat down to reflect in terms of what was this data telling us. And in terms of the data, it told us about a lot of gaps with respect to infrastructure. And that speaks to issues of access to water and sanitation, for example, and also even drainage in the case of flooding during rain season. But also another element that was so profound or prominent in terms of the findings from Glen View relates to the perennial fire outbreaks that we have become accustomed to in terms of Glen View 8 furniture complex. And if I may say this, since the market was established in 2006, there’s been 15 fire outbreaks in Glen View. So part of the priorities that informed the interventions were hugely informed and influenced by some of these issues that were highlighted or came out of the data processes. And so we began a process of sitting down together with the city, because the the market is owned by the city. But there are also other critical stakeholders including the provincial and central government in terms of supporting SMEs or informal sector. So we worked out how we would then come up with the hardware interventions that sought to respond to some of these priorities identified. And we identified collectively together with the traders WASH interventions as some of the low-hanging fruits as it were that could be rolled out in terms of infrastructure upgrades. And to date I’m happy to note that that work was completed in the first phase. And apart from these hardware interventions, we also learned a significant amount of lessons in terms of what this is teaching us about markets. Despite issues to do with their contested nature, we noted that market associations, traders – they are willing to contribute towards addressing some of the challenges that are faced in these markets and willing in terms of ideas, willing and even in terms resources. But more often you find that there are no opportunities for the different stakeholders to come onto the same table and chart some pathways for bringing these required services into these markets. So that’s something that we have learned through this process, through the ACRC action research in Harare. And just to also note that, apart from Glen View, there were also related interventions that we undertook that touched other markets beyond just the Glen View Furniture Complex. So, for example, the policy engagements that I spoke about earlier involved other markets, in terms of ensuring that whatever institutional frameworks that would be in place would also then enable establishment or supporting markets just beyond the one that had been targeted. And even the learnings, we had opportunities for peer-to-peer learning across these different markets, learning from each other in terms how they were addressing or resolving some of the challenges that they are facing in their markets. And we had an exchange visit with Bulawayo, which is the second capital in Zimbabwe, where Glen View traders were able to also see some of the governance approaches that were being used in terms of administering similar markets. So really, quite a number of lessons that we took away from the first phase and which we hope are going to be very useful in terms of informing the way that lies ahead, in terms of the phase two that is just starting now. And we have plans to, having done Glen View, we have plans to sit down together with the City of Harare and relevant stakeholders in terms of which other markets can we get into. And also supported by the lead for the action research project, which is Development Governance Institute. So that’s what we have done, that’s where we are in terms of the urban markets project, and yeah, we are happy we are here, we are happy we have learnt some considerable amount of lessons through this action research project.

Chris Jordan That’s really fascinating to hear and I know you mentioned the fire outbreaks that regularly happen at Glen View, but also part way through the research that you were doing, there was a major fire at the main urban market, the Mbare market. Did that create opportunities for you? Did it open more space or dialogue around the issues of markets more broadly?

George Masimba Thank you Chris for that question. Indeed, in as much as the fire was very unfortunate, as would always be the case, I think it also presented opportunities for engaging the state. For example, soon after the fire, we were able to facilitate hosting of a policy seminar that drew the city and central government and many other relevant stakeholders together around the Urban Informality Forum, which is a platform that we co-created together with our partners and hosted within the University of Zimbabwe. So, we were able to come up with a policy seminar that specifically focused on disasters in urban markets through, as a result, or following the outbreak at Mbare. And this helped in terms of spotlighting the disaster-related challenges that are faced in urban market and begin to push the key stakeholders, in this case, city and central government authorities, in terms of how do we ensure that markets become resilient against the backdrop of such incidences as the perennial fires that continue to affect markets in Harare? So it indeed provided an opportunity to have some conversations and make out some strategies in terms of how do you support markets so that they become fire resilient, as it were.

Rosebella Apollo Thank you very much, George. Perhaps, just to take us slightly back, I wonder – traditionally, Dialogue on Shelter has focused heavily on engagements with informal settlements and informal settlers. This switch now to working with the urban markets. How do you transition very seamlessly? Like you rightfully put it, you have managed to switch the different sides from the informal settlements to the market and have successfully still put up quite some tangible interventions. How do manage to seamlessly transition, but most importantly, how do you make the inroads for that kind of change?

George Masimba Thank you, Rosebella, for that question. So indeed, the urban markets space and the informal settlements space are two different things, but they are also similar in the sense that you are dealing with informal spaces. So, that informality component or element contributes to our capacity to then transition from this one space to the other, because in many respects, some of the realities or the challenges that they are dealing with are more or less the same. So, you talk of informal settlement, issues of infrastructure gaps are very common, and the same applies to markets, particularly if they are informal and even formal markets. So that common thread in terms of informality running through these different spaces helped us to get around that transition and to be comfortable in terms for dealing with this new space that we were entering into. But I also want to note that we learned a great deal of lessons working with informal markets in terms of how you need to adjust some of the tools and strategies, approaches that you deploy in informal settlements. For example, previously when you are undertaking data collection in informal settlements, the notion of time does not come very much on the forefront, but when you’re dealing with traders and you’re conducting research, time becomes money. And that’s one thing that we learned and it informed the way we’re undertaking data collection processes, taking into account that you are dealing with people whose time is essentially money. So you’ve got to then respond accordingly or adjust accordingly in terms of how you approach the data collection processes, but even the mobilisation processes, all that needs to respond to this different context in terms of markets. So yeah, it was indeed a different space, but we also took a number of lessons in terms of how we could approach that.

Chris Jordan Great and this work, as you said, is ongoing. There’s more to come. Where would you like to get it to? Where do you think the opportunities for reform and improvements around markets are in Harare?

George Masimba So, in terms of opportunities for reform in Harare, they pointed at many things and in terms of what I could talk about right now is how do you leverage traders’ resources in terms of ensuring that markets are upgraded? Because I think, based on the findings, it’s an area that is full of missed opportunities in terms of how traders can contribute towards improvement of their trading spaces, which is something that we are borrowing and learning from the informal settlements space, where communities take a huge part in terms of contributing towards upgrading. And we think there is merit in replicating, of course, adapting that model into markets where you leverage on their resources, both in terms of financial resources, as well as their intellectual resources, in terms how markets can be improved. So that’s an area where we think there is a lot of potential for reform, and we are happy to note that in phase two, a huge focus of our work will look at how do you come up with alternative infrastructure and land tenure models for markets in Harare – the work that is going to be led by Development Governance Institute. And that for us provides the basis and foundation for thinking through processes related to policy reform that respond to the broader agenda that ACRC is pursuing in terms of pushing inclusive urban reform. So, one, land tenure. Two, infrastructure financing in terms of the contribution of traders.

Chris Jordan Thanks, George, and we might come back to some of those broader issues of reform and coalitions and how change is being moved forward in the city, but can I now turn to you, Shiela? So can you tell us a bit about the project that you’re leading around climate change and improving resilience within informal settlements?

Shiela Muganyi Thank you so much, Chris. So the ISCCA project, the Informal Settlements Climate Change Action project, is using climate change as an entry point to slum upgrading in Harare. So at the same time, it’s also strengthening the locally-led adaptation actions that are already happening in the communities and also building the city’s capacity to implement its own framework in terms of slum upgrading. So this is what ISCCA is trying to focus on in Harare’s informal settlements and city-wide.

Chris Jordan And what have you done so far? Has this been research on the ground in terms of looking at different solutions or what’s happened?

Shiela Muganyi Yes, so what we have done so far in the first phase, we have done vulnerability assessments. So the first phase was mainly on research and now we are focusing, this is our second phase, we are now focusing on action, on the action bit. So we have done the vulnerability assessments, we’ve done the mapping, trying to map the hazards, the risks in the communities. And also trying to understand what really happens, what are the causes of these impacts. And then we also developed, we co-developed the communities’ climate change action plans and these are the actions that they are also using to do the locally-led actions in their communities. And also they are using these to also advocate for slum upgrading of their communities. So, for example, the main issue in the communities that’s been coming out, despite the climate change impacts is the issue of tenure. And that’s the biggest challenge that’s preventing the communities themselves to do a locally-led action that can be long-term. Most of the communities are focusing on short-term actions. So the project now is coming in to try and have these conversations with the city, at least for them to understand what’s happening on the ground, the actions that are being done, and also the efforts of the communities to be embedded in the city’s framework. And also, we have been trying to do Urban Informality Forums that bring together the state, the local authorities, different other actors that are relevant to the work that we are doing. So in December on the 5th, we held an Urban Informality Forum, which was mainly focusing on Dzivarasekwa Extension towards other road designs. So this also we made sure that we brought the state to the grassroots because if we looked back, when we used to do these Urban Informality Forums, we used to have meetings in spaces like this, in spaces at the University of Zimbabwe, in spaces at the City of Harare Chambers, and then this time we shifted from that because we want the city to be involved in the plans, in all the action or the work that the communities are doing, and also see how they can support them around the challenges that they are facing. So this is also one of the things that we have done and achieved. And also, in the first phase, we had a project management committee, which is in partnership with the City of Harare, Zimbabwe Homeless People’s Federation, and Dialogue on Shelter. And some community representatives also managed to be part of these conversations. So the main purpose of this project management committee, it was established around 2010 during the Harare Slum Upgrading Project. So we revived it when the ISCCA project came. So what we achieved from the first project management committee meeting that we held in May last year was the relevant departments of the city of Harare then came in to support Tafara’s informal settlement by issuing them a partial compliance certificate. They also issued them with lease agreements that they are in the process of signing and also approved house plans. So this is a process that’s still in place and almost 75% of the communities managed to sign their lease agreements and to have their own approved house plans. So this was the main achievement or a milestone from this project management committee that we can still embrace. And then, Tafara informal settlement, now we started to do permanent construction on the ground so right now I think it’s plus or minus 30 houses that have been built to roof level. Right now, work is in progress, they’ve been sending photos of what’s happening right now, so this is a milestone for us. And we also had another meeting on the 27th of February, another project management committee some two weeks ago, and we also then tried to see how we can also work into the 11 settlements that are focused by the ISCCA project. So there is a process of regularisation that’s happening in the city of Harare right now. And the relevant department, also one of the main officials, then asked us if we can meet and then also see which of the settlements that we are planning to work with or we are working with so that we can try and see how we can work together with the city of Harare. And right now, in that same meeting, they also reported that they have started regularising 150 informal settlements in Harare, so it’s one of the, during the Harare Slum Upgrading Project, I think we managed to sign a memorandum of understanding between us and the city of Harare, and from this we then produced a slum upgrading strategy, where there are some issues of regularisation policies inside this. So I think they have also started to institutionalise or operationalise the strategy that we produced together. So these are some of the milestones here. I can also talk about the settlement to settlement visits that are ongoing, which are also have been very helpful between the communities, and also another milestone is that the communities themselves are speaking directly to the theory of change reform coalition. The settlements themselves then decided to establish an informal settlements network, which they use as a platform of sharing ideas, sharing concerns, sharing what’s happening in real-time on their settlements. And this informal settlements network has proved to be one of the networks that’s been very helpful in these communities. By that, it was an informal settlement network that started as 11 settlements, only that are focusing on the ISCCA project, but it has now gone beyond the 11 settlements and now we are calling it a city-wide informal settlements network.

Chris Jordan That’s really great and loads that’s happened. I’m really interested in that originally, this was a project that used climate as its focus and its entry point, but it seems like a lot of the positive changes that you’ve seen have been around regularisation and tenure security and some of the bigger, you know, possibly like harder things to achieve around this sort of process. So how’s that worked? Is that just the City of Harare recognising that in order to improve time and resilience, that tenure was a precursor to that?

Shiela Muganyi Yeah, so just because we are having these regular meetings, regular conversations, I think there are a lot of, there are series of conversations or engagements that we’ve been doing, bigger meetings, smaller meetings, you know, with the city of Harare. So I think it is something that the city is embracing. It’s something that the city has also started to look at on another lens. And the other thing that I think is making this relationship stronger between the communities and the City of Harare is that through the Urban Informality Forums and the meetings that we do together, including the affected community representatives, they speak for themselves in these communities. Now they even know that this is the Office of the Surveyor. This is the Office of the Housing Director. They are even known by their names. So I think it’s something that we’ve seen as a catalytic, it’s catalysing, it is trying to speak to what the project’s focus is on.

Rosebella Apollo Perhaps Shiela, you’ve spoken rightly of the involvement of the City of Harare in the processes of the ISCCA project and the bigger reform around regularisation in Harare. I wonder, the Urban Informality Forum has transitioned from being in the university and formal spaces, and now you have brought it to the community. How has that landed? What kind of effects are we seeing in terms of that engagement with the community members, now that the Forum is closer to the community?

Shiela Muganyi Thank you, Rosebella, for that. I think the first achievement for us is actually to bring the state, the ministry, or the minister of state to the ground. And meeting the community and exchanging, I can say, positive conversations. So this is one of our achievements, because it is very hard, especially to bring the ministry down to the people. And then secondly, like I said, the last that we had, it was on the 5th of December 2025. And this was focusing mainly on the designs of the Dzivarasekwa Extension road, which is very damaged by the floods, there are no proper drainage systems in the community. So at that time in December, it was raining in Harare. And so when they came, the roads were flooded, they could not even see where to step when they’re walking. So it was kind of something that had an impact. So the City of Harare and the ministry then came back after this meeting and also tried to have dialogues with the specific community. So there are road designs that are in place right now, and the City of Harare is also trying to help with this organisation that’s helping the City to put in place the designs. The designs are now there, but they are not yet approved. So it’s something that we are seeing, we are just waiting for the approval of the designs, and if they are there, then maybe we can now see how to support the community. Because Dzivarasekwa Extension has already started contributing savings towards the road. So they are just waiting maybe for the designs. And the other thing is that the community itself has had a meeting with their own councillor, the politicians of the community, the ones who also sometimes we say them, these, they call the shots. So they are always being part of the meetings that we hold with the communities. And so the last meeting that we had, the community then agreed to start cleaning wherever they are supposed to start. They started to do any other job that they are supposed to do in preparation for the main work. So this is what’s happening. And so I think just because of the commitment of the state themselves and the local authority in this and also their attendance in our meetings shows that at least we have some pathway.

Chris Jordan And I’m also quite struck by the fact that in both projects, the Urban Informality Forum seems to have played a really crucial role in helping to bring together state, communities and researchers, and has played an important sort of catalytic first stage. Could you just tell us a little bit more about the Urban Informality Forum, George, and where it came from and how it operates?

George Masimba Thank you very much, Chris, for the question. So the history of the Urban Informality Forum can be traced back to 2018, when we created this space together with our colleagues, the Development Governance Institute, ourselves, Dialogue on Shelter, Zimbabwe Homeless People’s Federation, the Shelter and Homage Trust and the University of Zimbabwe’s planning school. So the logic around creating this space, we looked at it as a learning and policy space, really. The logic being to create some platform that allows for neutral conversations, if I can put it that way, where communities, the state and civil society actors have got the opportunity to talk about what is not working within the city, without necessarily pointing fingers at each other. So we thought the university as a convening space allowed us to engage in these less contested conversations around how do we think of, how do make our cities work, what is needed in terms of policies for our cities to work? So that’s when we established that space and we would identify themes of interest related to informality, various themes of interest related to informality. For example, issues to do with participatory slum upgrading were discussed in some of the earlier seminars. Issues to do with climate change, climate resilience have been discussed. Issues to do with evictions also, stuff that would not normally be conversed with the state and communities on the same table. But we created this platform that allowed people to reflect on their experiences of the city, particularly from an informality lens, if you want. And to date, we have held plus or minus 15 sessions or seminars that have seen officials from the local government, central government, making presentations alongside communities and academics in terms of what needs to be done to make our cities more inclusive, more sustainable and more resilient. And like Shiela indicated, we have also over the last years extended the geography to informal settlements, where all these challenges that we are talking about are being faced. So getting your academics, students also from the universities and officials from the state to get a chance of having this first-hand experience with some of these challenges that communities are encountering in their settlements. But I think one of the most important aspects that has come out of this space is creating that enabling environment where communities can interact with the state without necessarily throwing accusations at each other. A space that allows to present some learnings, ideas from other jurisdictions in terms of what has been tested, what has worked elsewhere, and how it can be adapted in our own local context and come up with solutions that are not only inclusive, but solutions that provide lasting solutions to the challenges that communities are facing. So, that’s the history of the Urban Informality Forum in Harare, and we think we are not there yet, but so far we are very excited about the progress that we have registered through this platform that we call Urban Informality Forum.

Chris Jordan That’s really interesting to hear and I know you’ve inspired lots of other ACRC city teams, our colleagues in Lagos are looking at the moment about how they might be able to set up something similar. Do you think it is an approach that might be useful across other African cities?

George Masimba Yeah, I think it’s an approach that might be very useful in other African cities and it resonates with the approach and logic within ACRC which encourages collaborations between universities, civil society organisations, communities and the state. So I’m imagining, given the the kind of partners or stakeholders that we have under ACRC, where we have different higher institutions of learning collaborating with civil society organisations, it would be very easy to replicate, but of course adapt based on some of the contextual realities in the different cities, under ACRC. I’m imagining that it’s a concept and approach that can be easily replicated elsewhere and provide opportunities for pushing and advancing inclusive urban reforms in African cities.

Rosebella Apollo Perhaps, George, you have rightfully stated that the context across African cities really differs and might be different. Should other cities be interested in setting up, what are some of like the quick reflections around the basics that they need to do to get an Urban Informality Forum?

George Masimba Thank you very much, Rosebella. I think I will refer to an article that I wrote last year that speaks to our experiences around the Open Informality Forum. And I think one of the things that I would do, think is important, it relates to the geography, where you convene these seminars, matters. And we started with the university, we think that was very strategic, because it provides that neutrality in terms of enabling conducive engagements to be undertaken between different parties around inclusive urban reforms. That’s one. Then two, I think it’s also about how you ensure that you deal with power dynamics around ensuring that community voices are given an opportunity to be highlighted and amplified in these spaces, because you risk excluding communities, bringing them on board but excluding them at the same time, if you are not careful about the issue to do or respond to power dynamics that come with the different stakeholders that we are talking about. So that’s the second thing, that sensitivity to power-related issues. Then three, there is also need to take into account the urban politics of the city. I think there’s need to be conscious of the dynamics related to the urban politics of each and every given city that you are working in, so that you also approach the space in ways that will enable meaningful, honest conversations, that will give rise to the inclusive urban reforms that we are talking about. So that element is also key in terms of for those cities that may be interested in experimenting with this idea. But I should also hasten to point out, a lot will also depend on what organically emerges from these processes in terms of what should be the best pathway for establishing a sustainable platform for honest engagement among different parties around urbanism.

Chris Jordan Well, it will be fascinating to see whether any of the other ACRC cities can get something similarly effective going. So we will track that carefully. And I’ll make sure that that paper that you mentioned is linked down in the show notes. And it is also part of a wider special issue on reform coalitions that covers a lot of the ground and a lot the issues that we’ve been talking about more broadly today. But yeah I just want to say, George and Shiela, thank you so much for joining us today, thank you for sharing your insights. Rosebella, thank you as well.

Rosebella Apollo Thank you very much. It’s been an insightful conversation.

Chris Jordan And we will look on with care to see what happens next in Harare. Good luck guys!

George Masimba Thank you, Chris, thank you, Rosebella, for having us here. Bye!

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